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The bonds between people are one of the most important aspects of pro wrestling. From heated rivalries to bitter feuds to touching partnerships, it is the ever-changing emotional landscape of the sport that makes matches more than just contextless brawls and draws in audiences beyond typical sports fandoms.
One promotion that has been making especially good use of that fact since its inception is the Lucha Libre-based Japanese company DRAGONGATE. With their focus on faction warfare, they have attracted many fans who are primarily interested in their wrestlers as people rather than just athletes, especially in how they relate to each other. And few wrestlers on their roster embody that concept more than Shun Skywalker.
Originally set to become the next young ace of his promotion, Skywalker is now a controversial figure among audiences and wrestlers alike, adored as a dark hero by some, despised as a villain by others. But regardless of his reputation, he is inextricably tied to most major talents and occurences in DRAGONGATE. Be they a beloved crowd favorite or irreverent troublemaker, almost every young star in the company has some kind of complicated history with him, making him a veritable nexus of dramatic moments and fan interest.
This position recently saw Skywalker in the main event of Dead or Alive, DRAGONGATE’s second largest event of the year. As the name implies, DoA is meant to be the breaking point for the emotional friction built up throughout the first four months, culminating in a high-stakes cage match that has saved or destroyed many a tag team, faction, or rivalry. 2024 was no different in that regard. Not only did the match’s loser stand to lose their hair or mask, but several friendships and one of DRAGONGATE’s most popular factions hung in the balance, with Skywalker specifically determined to drive the final nail into all of their coffins.
Following this intense and widely praised match, Five Star Network’s Kay Quinn had the opportunity to interview Shun Skywalker about the history, relationships, and clashing ideals that defined Dead or Alive 2024, as well as his expectations for the upcoming Kobe Pro Wrestling Festival.
Here is what he had to say:
You recently competed in your third cage match, at Dead or Alive 2024. Compared to the previous two times, what was the experience like for you?
I didn’t ask for this cage match. It became obvious the moment this group of people entered the cage that either Kzy or Hyo, one of the two, would be the loser in the end. I don’t care if that useless filth has hair or not, and the only ones jumping from joy to sadness at this [outcome] are those lousy, dumb, happy-go-lucky fans who sprout like weeds around them.
The only outcome I had anticipated was Kzy, unworthy of the position of stable leader and hyperfocused on self-preservation as he is, escaping using Kamei as a step ladder—and yet Kamei left him behind not much later.
As a result nothing noteworthy happened afterwards, and Hyo was the last one in the cage. Just as the laws of nature intended. The strong win, the weak lose and receive their judgment.
It was the natural outcome, but maybe this was just the future that the GM, who arranged this match, had hoped for.
Your original stated goal going into the match was to defeat NATURAL VIBES Leader Kzy and make him leave his faction. However, he escaped thanks to the help of Strong Machine J, who turned down your offer to join Z-Brats. What do you think of this outcome?
It’s not like I knew whether it would be Hyo or Kzy who would be the weakest link and remain in the steel cage. The falcon that soars through the skies doesn’t concern itself with the height of the acorns that fight in the wet, rotten mud.
It’s clear that just because Kzy was the one to win the unsightly fight, that doesn’t make him strong. Anyone has the right to kick him in the behind and go “You narrowly escaped because there was someone weaker than you.”
Since then, Kzy has ceded leadership of NATURAL VIBES to J, starting a new era for the faction. Does this change your perspective on Kzy or Natural Vibes?
A new era has started for NATURAL VIBES? News to me. Nobody acknowledges that they even had an old era. What have they built? What have they left behind? If you ask me, they left behind the sin of wasting Kamei and Jason’s valuable time. They can’t possibly atone for this sin in the ring. The only indemnity they can do is disappearing from said ring. You can’t cover anything up by switching from incompetent leader to incompetent leader.
Former NATURAL VIBES member Jason Lee, who you fought alongside during this cage match, did become part of Z-Brats in recent months. What do you think led him to join your side when none of the other members did?
Both Jason and Kamei were able to notice their errors. That’s why I think they were able to make the decision to abandon NATURAL VIBES. Do you need an explanation for why Jason came to me? He just stopped being in the wrong place. As far as Kamei is concerned, I don’t care if it takes time, but that boy needs to slowly, slowly get honest with himself.
You had been trying to get Lee to join your faction for almost two years by the time he finally did. How did it feel when he approached Z-Brats of his own volition?
It wasn’t a cause for joy for me, to be honest. How shall I put it? I was disappointed in Jason for choosing NATURAL VIBES. Perhaps I should say “I told you so”, but in NATURAL VIBES Jason accomplished nothing, just like the other members. Nonetheless, they had fans, and they would get excited during the dancing, and even if they lost almost every time, they would comfort each other. There was a chance that Jason Lee would’ve been finished as a wrestler in NATURAL VIBES. But he broke through this inertia on his own volition. People change after that point, even if they continue to make the wrong choices. There are several other people that I wish would understand this as well.
After teaming with him for this match, would you say that your dynamic has changed since you were last working together as members of MASQUERADE?
I guess at a glance it doesn’t look like anything has changed. But to be honest, I will never forgive him for choosing NATURAL VIBES that one time.
In his recent interview with Five Star Network, Lee stated that you stopped referring to him as your possession when he joined Z-Brats. What was your reason for that?
I say what needs to be said and I don’t hide my thoughts.
What I can say is that the truth of the decision he made at that moment will never go away.
Another wrestler you have been referring to as your property over the course of the last two years is Jacky Kamei, one of your opponents in this match. In fact, your attempts to recruit Kamei this year have been compared to your campaign to recruit Lee back in 2022. Is there anything you learned from that previous attempt and have been doing differently this time?
Even if I have phrased it as him being “mine”, that’s not because it’s an expression of the fact that he’s “my property”, it’s an expression to convey that he himself sought me out and wanted to fight by my side. I respect how he feels, and anyone with eyes can see that Kamei needs 𝐒𝐇𝐔𝐍 𝐒𝐊𝐘𝐖𝐀𝐋𝐊𝐄𝐑 in order to overturn the status quo. If he says out loud how he truly feels inside then he is sure to make progress, don’t you think?
You have previously stated that deep in his heart, Kamei wants to fight by your side. But despite this, Kamei has both verbally and physically rejected you repeatedly, refusing to join Z-Brats to this date. How would you explain this discrepancy between his actions and his supposed true feelings?
This is about mind and body. His mind wishes to be at 𝐒𝐇𝐔𝐍 𝐒𝐊𝐘𝐖𝐀𝐋𝐊𝐄𝐑’s side, yet his body opposes it. You aren’t able to do everything just because you’ve put your mind to it, either. No, the motions of body and mind do not always coincide. Put another way, we might say things like “What, you don’t like it? But your body is telling the truth.” Either way, I don’t believe that you should only take either the mind or the body into consideration. Still, the impulse that makes Kamei desire me with his heart will eventually govern his body. That’s how intense and passionate his emotions are. Thus, the day when he will spit in the face of BIG HUG, whom his body could not resist, and NATURAL VIBES, whom he stayed with even as his heart hated it, draws near.
At the 2023 DRAGONGATE Winter Fan Tour, you stated that you’re able to recognise such hidden feelings by putting your hand into someone’s mouth. When and how did you first notice that you had this ability?
I think I was four or five when I would often put my own fingers in my mouth. It felt like this posture fit me, or like it was strangely calming. I stopped doing it when I entered elementary school, and then on the day I became a highschool student, when I stuffed my mouth with one Tongari Corn1 on each finger at a friend’s house, I heard a faint voice from far away: “This doesn’t taste good.” Wouldn’t you know it, turns out that was just my own inner voice.
You also stated that you only do this to a very select number of wrestlers – specifically Kamei, Lee, Minorita, and Soberano Jr., recently joined by Yuki Ueno – and that trying to do it to NOAH’s Junta Miyawaki disgusted you and was a mistake. What sets those first five apart?
How do I explain this? When I heard Junta Miyawaki’s voice, I felt that he was “impure”. I do this move simply because I want to hear people’s hidden voices, but sometimes I reject [what I hear] as a result. There is such a thing as compatibility, you see.
What have you learned about these various wrestlers by connecting to them in that way?
Some people tremble in fear before 𝐒𝐇𝐔𝐍 𝐒𝐊𝐘𝐖𝐀𝐋𝐊𝐄𝐑, some people wish to stick close to 𝐒𝐇𝐔𝐍 𝐒𝐊𝐘𝐖𝐀𝐋𝐊𝐄𝐑, some people hope to fight 𝐒𝐇𝐔𝐍 𝐒𝐊𝐘𝐖𝐀𝐋𝐊𝐄𝐑. [I’ve learned] all kinds of things.
Returning to the topic of Kamei, following the cage match, he left NATURAL VIBES with Kzy’s permission to join the faction BIG HUG. As someone who has been very critical of NATURAL VIBES’ influence on Kamei’s career, is this faction change a positive move for him?
Staying in NATURAL VIBES is a disadvantage for him, and going to BIG HUG is also a disadvantage to him. The fans who applaud [his move to BIG HUG] and the fans who are moved by sob stories, they are all just handicapping him.
How do you view Kzy’s decision to let Kamei go?
That’s not the correct way to see it. Halfway through, Kamei noticed that NATURAL VIBES was really just an empty disco ball with no connection to reality. I don’t think I need to mention that his heart wasn’t in it.
Kzy just chose the least disadvantageous path during a situation when it looked like Kamei was on the brink of leaving [the stable].
I think that the fans who were successfully fooled by that and called it “the bond of NATURAL VIBES” or “Kzy’s chivalry” or something like that will continue to be fooled their whole lives.
A core reason for Kamei switching factions was BIG HUG member Hyo sacrificing himself for his sake during the cage match, losing his hair as a result. What do you think of Hyo’s choice and its outcome?
Since it would’ve been either Kzy or Hyo who would lose their hair, and since things would’ve gone differently if Kzy had lost his hair, I think “Hyo remains in the cage and loses his hair, Kamei joins him out of pity” was the best outcome from Hyo’s perspective. After all, his hair has no value at all.
Ahead of the match, Hyo claimed on social media that you only know twisted love, and that he would show you what true love looks like. As you see it, what is the difference between Hyo’s idea of love and yours?
What he says is truly just lip service. His heart isn’t in his words, or rather, it’s obvious that they only serve to keep up appearances. After all, he never talked about what would happen to Kamei if he went from NATURAL VIBES to BIG HUG. He didn’t think to consider Kamei’s feelings in this. The subject in “We in BIG HUG need Kamei” is him and Mante, after all, and there was nothing to motivate Kamei’s behavior. You can’t even compare [my idea of love and his]. In contrast, I understand that Kamei wants to fight by 𝐒𝐇𝐔𝐍 𝐒𝐊𝐘𝐖𝐀𝐋𝐊𝐄𝐑’s side. And furthermore, I happen to have sympathy for the fact that, although he wishes for this in his heart, it hasn’t yet spread through his body, so I’m not forcing him.
An embrace without love is nothing more than a restraint.
Before he was a member of BIG HUG, Hyo was the one who convinced you to join what is now Z-Brats by proclaiming that, as your dojo classmate, only he understood you. With the benefit of hindsight, would you say that he did?
It’s true that back then, as [Hyo] was being troubled by Kaito Ishida and Eita, he felt my righteousness. At that point in time, it might’ve been so.
You stated in our previous interview that you wouldn’t change any of your past choices. Is that also true for your decision to leave MASQUERADE to help Hyo found Z-Brats?
Choosing those who would ultimately abandon MASQUERADE as its starting members, and choosing the same path as the weak, fleeing Hyo and Mante, those were just the optimal choices at that time, in those moments. In the end, [certain things] were brought to light because of that as well. I don’t feel remorse because of the movements of such trivial existences.
Regardless of the past, you emerged victorious at Dead or Alive as a member of Z-Brats. What do you think ultimately predicated your victory?
Strength, that’s all. All fights come down to that. Not showing any mercy no matter how pitiful your opponent is, that is also a form of strength. How you act and think in order to win, that’s all strength. The contrast between us, who understood this beforehand, and the idiots who entered the steel cage without understanding it—that illuminated the crude steel cage like hanging lights.
Having closed that chapter, you are now set to challenge for the Twin Gate Championship at Kobe Pro Wrestling Festival on July 23rd. How do you feel about that?
There’s been nothing acceptable about PARADOX since they came about originally. No one can explain what the purpose of making a stable that collects middle-ranking [wrestlers] who are approaching being veterans and who have made no contributions and don’t belong anywhere is. NATURAL VIBES is virtually over. So now, I’ve pretty much moved on to disciplining the next group. I can’t just turn a blind eye to the fact that there is a place for a lot like that, and that worst came to worst and they have the belts now. 𝐒𝐇𝐔𝐍 𝐒𝐊𝐘𝐖𝐀𝐋𝐊𝐄𝐑, who is overwhelmingly more valuable than the Twin Gate championships, shall be challenging for those belts. First of all, I would have them kneel down before me and convey their gratitude [and even that would not be enough].
1 Tongari Corn is a type of cone-shaped corn snack, as the name implies (tongari means “pointy”). Children often put them on their fingers and eat them that way, like raspberries.
Our deepest gratitude to Shun Skywalker (@ssw_skywalk), for taking the time to answer our questions once again. We would also like to thank Ho Ho Lun (@hoholun719), for his help in arranging this interview.
All translation for this interview was handled by Joe (@thefeelite). We are grateful for his excellent work.
If you enjoyed this interview with Shun Skywalker, have a look at our previous one here. Those unfamiliar with his home promotion can learn more in our DRAGONGATE Beginner’s Guide, or our introduction to its greatest young stars.